TGV Delete

turbofied · **Posted:** Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:48 pm

This seems to be a popular mod for people that are at the pointy end of their setups limit.

Seems that over 6 years no one has a decent back to back dyno with grimmspeed being the only company that provides one. I will be able to provide decent evidence wether this mod is worth the time end effort.

It takes about 6 hrs to remove/ replace the tgv's and a good 5-8hrs of porting.

There is meant to be a solid 10-15hp gain across the midrange with smaller gains in top and low end. If thats true 10kw is definately worth the effort if you can DIY.

What you need?

Hack saw
rotary tool/ dremel/ die grinder
carbide bit
flapper wheel
Grinder wheel when the screws holding the butterflys don't agree
New set of gaskets
good eye.

Before

After

Dyno results should be up later in the week

Patster · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:13 am

Could you explain to the viewers how you removed the butterflies and spindles and what steps to take.
How are you going to block the spindle holes up and how much metal did you remove from polishing

Interested in the back to back resultsas well.

Captain-Coupe · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:54 pm

I just took apart a set i have. In standard form this section looks very restrictive. Will be good to see some dyno results.

Not sure what OP is doing with the holes, but i will be welding them up & making block off plates

The butterflys & shaft are easy to remove:

I had issues with the 4 fixing screws & ended up drilling them out (3mm bit).
Once screws are out, turn shaft to open position & pull the butterflys out.

using the handle of a screwdriver, tap the shaft out:

Getting them to the same spec as GC8 is gonna take some work!

turbofied, do you have a pic of the underside? I'd like to see what you did there!

turbofied · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:37 pm

I can take one, You mean the injector side?

I'm going to see kev tomorrow as long as the heat wont affect the shape from welding this is a good option.

I was leaning towards a m10 drill bit> m10 tap then some allen head bolts. This also seems to work fine for most of the people that have tried it.

Don't forget on the tgv sensor end not the motor end, there is a small sleve bearing in there that i had to look twice to locate.

I'm not going to put end caps on if its sealed thats good enough for me.

Yeah those little screws didn't want to budge, i had to slot the holes and i got 5 out of 8 that snapped mid shaft, the other 3 had the heads break off.

Also for Patster.

I removed enough metal for a even distance around the gasket, overlay the gasket> center it around the injector> spray with paint then grind and smooth to the top of the port.

The main areas are the bridge joins, and the ridge where the original butterfly sits. There are also a few casting lines you might want to touch up.

turbofied · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:26 pm

Front on pic added

WRX Leon · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:47 pm

A couple noob questions from someone interested in learning. What does TGV stand for? I'll probably kick myself when I find out. Also what does the TGV do standard and what is the aim for deleting ie what happens differently?

Prezza · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:26 pm

WRX Leon wrote:

A couple noob questions from someone interested in learning. What does TGV stand for? I'll probably kick myself when I find out. Also what does the TGV do standard and what is the aim for deleting ie what happens differently?

x2.. never heard of this before.

turbofied · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:31 pm

Tumble generator valve

Basically closes half of the intake port on cold starts to atomise the increased fueling at cold start.

Main problems are they aren't very aero dynamic and they don't open completely. Creating a decent restriction to power i hope!

my.wrx · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:35 pm

Tgv sensor stands for Tumble Generator Valve
and is the exact same part as the Throttle Response Sensor (TRS)

Captain-Coupe · **Posted:** Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:39 pm

Thanks for the pic, they came up good
:text-google:

http://www.scoobymods.com/mod-tgv-tumble-generator-valve-t4371.html?s=13a722e669a91f88aa8a060d2eb75e08&

turbofied · **Posted:** Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:30 pm

Got them filled by Brett at Process West.

For future reference i would recommend getting them plugged/ tapped.

The casting has to many impurities to get a good fill without air pockets. One side worked great the other had to be touched up 3 times and you could of kept trying for hours trying to get it perfect.

Dyno results soon.

It seems to get on boost quicker, and there is no more grumpy cold start up issue

turbofied · **Posted:** Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:33 pm

Seems grimmspeeds claims are acurate SMW didn't get to tune it today but a power run to verify it was still a safe afr it made 195wk up from 188, peak power is held for longer and there is a good 10-12kw through the midrange.

04wrecks · **Posted:** Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:05 pm

Does this involve actually removing the engine from the car? Also, what does 'porting' refer to?

turbofied · **Posted:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:47 pm

No definately not, about 3hrs out and in for tgv's and 8hrs porting

Intake manifold can stay on, but you need to remove:

Air pump
Air box
fuel rail covers
injectors
TMIC
then you should be able to work them out!

WRX Leon · **Posted:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:20 pm

Were these on all models or just certain ones?

turbofied · **Posted:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:31 pm

I have seen 03/04/05/06/07 tgv options in there roms so they must have them. Don't think the bugs did because emissions weren't as strict.

Captain-Coupe · **Posted:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:46 pm

turbofied wrote:

i have seen 03/04/05/06/07 tgv options in there roms so they must have them. Don't think the bugs did because emissions weren't as strict.

Bugs did. GD (2001) onwards.

I think JDM & spec C versions don't have them though ???

It's interesting you had trouble welding the holes, the casting is good (look at the machined mating area!)

turbofied · **Posted:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:11 pm

The casting surface is fine but if there is other metals in the batch then it can be quite painful.

Yeah spec c don't because thats whats available off the shelf.

I wonder if the plastic manifolds have them...

MY00 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:17 am

To block the butterfly ports off, I heard of people using loctite and a stud, then porting the end of the stud to match the inside port, this allows for smooth airflow without the holes to 'tumble' the air passing thru. Seems effective without the need to fill with welds.

Captain-Coupe · **Posted:** Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:31 pm

Easiest way would bs to tap a thread & screw a bolt in.

I have a set I'm doing. Annoying job!

05rsx · **Posted:** Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:28 pm

^Tap, Bolt(+'stick'), Grind is the method I'm using.
I'm currently doing a set at the moment (although very slowly thanks to Uni demands)
Couple of pics:

05-RSX wrote:

Was going to construct a DIY, but due to equipment shortages this has been done in fits and starts.

Regardless, current progress is such - Butterflies & associated hardware (rods, bearings, seals) have been removed; dividers have been roughly cut out; external holes (from butterfly rods) have been tapped (M10), bolts to 'fill' the holes have been sourced.

Next steps are - JB Weld the bolts in place (rated to 315*C - plenty!); attack remaining parts of dividers & excess bolt length with carbide bit @22,000rpm, inc. light port; smooth; install.

Beauty of the cap bolts is they slip snuggly into the existing holes. This means the original plate should cover one end ('small' end), and the motor is still able to cover the other ('big' end) - Stealth FTW.

Pictures:

05-RSX wrote:

JB Weld is a 'steel epoxy'. It's basically your 'normal' exopy with steel in it, and is resistant to most things. Apparently you can treat it like metal when it's cured, which is why I chose it as I'm grinding the area after. A normal high temp sealant might work perfectly well, although would gum up grinding/sanding stuff so you'd probably want to have bolts cut to perfect length beforehand. Also, the JB Weld is rated to 315*C - which is plenty.
I used it as a thread filler/sealer (to prevent boostz leaking out) as well as a 'loctite' to prevent the bolts coming undone.
Apply it liberally to the threads (and maybe a little bit to the hosuing aswell), then whack them in. If all goes nicely, it'll squish out the ends around the head of the bolt so you (a) know you have sealed it off; (b) somewhat hold the head from spinning aswell.

You can see it as the grey stuff around the head on this end. The other end is near impossible to see down

excess on the threads

and JBWeld, about $20 from autobarn.

As for sensors, they changed the TGV sub-style (within the 'topfeed' style) about mid 07. The changes included the postition if the dividing wall, and incorporated the motor and sensor into one housing ('older' style had motor at one end, sensor at the other)
My car is an early 07 with the 'older' style TGVs.
The spare TGVs I have are the 'newer' style.
As such, I wont be able to plug them in (2x connectors (3+2pin); vs 1x5pin connector), but I will do my best to reinstall the motor and make it look factory.
If you're working on the ones from your motor, I'd chuck the bits back on, disable the CELs and call it a day - looks 100% factory, operates a lot better.

sku81 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:39 pm

Ive been doing these for years(unless i just buy them from subaru japan..01-02 sti blanks)I just get them welded up b4 i clean them up.

side feed TGV(legacy and XT foz)

01-2007 sti/wrx(O ringed)

Bottom 2 is how my itb's started life.

Kris

05rsx · **Posted:** Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:32 am

Love the Orings!

Machined in with some kind of Kris' special secret sause?
What kind of ballpark would you be looking at to get them Oringed? (or not really worth the $$$ unles you have the gear yourself?)

sku81 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:08 pm

05rsx wrote:

Love the Orings!

Machined in with some kind of Kris' special secret sause?
What kind of ballpark would you be looking at to get them Oringed? (or not really worth the $$$ unles you have the gear yourself?)

nar a machine shop up the road from my place. I think it costs about $100 inc the O rings.O rings cost me 50c each from porters engineering.

No gasket problems ever again.

Kris

Dr freedom · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:37 pm

I too did this years ago..
Tip: the screws holding the butterflys are secured using loctite, sit a soldering iron on them for a few mins prior to soften it, saves stripping screw & having to drill them out afterwards

Its the same on any bike as well

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TGV Delete

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